GRIPES! NOT!

[Bob Pendleton <bobp@pendleton.com>]

Flame wars are a natural part of the development of a mailing list or a
news group. It is how the bounds of acceptable behavior are established.
I'd say it is time to move on.

For the last several years I've been answering questions sent to
questions@gameprogrammer.com. The one thing I have learned is that most
of the world does not have access to technical information. Most people
don't even know anyone who has any kind of technical knowledge. The
whole process of knowledge discovery and problem solving, called the
scientific method, that is so ingrained in the world technical culture
is alien to most of the world's population. I'm not talking about third
world countries. It's true for most of the people in the U.S.

What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people who want to
learn this stuff who don't even know HOW to start solving the problems
themselves. It was hard for me to believe, but it's true. When somebody
flames maybe it just means they are beginners at dealing with people. I
know that while math and science came easily to me, dealing with people
didn't. It was something that was hard to learn.

	We were all beginners once.

			Bob P.

"Mythic uuh... Smith" wrote:
> 
> I don't wish to offend anyone, but SOMEONE needs to defend Jason before this
> gets more out of hand... He stated a couple of opinions, maybe not in the
> most diplomatic way possible, but that's what it was.  He was not saying
> that newbies should not be here, he said (in a not-so-diplomatic way) that
> we should try to figure out our problems maybe a little bit more, because he
> is a little misinformed and thinks that just because something seems very
> basic to him, that it must be at least _known_ to the general population of
> programmers.  I say that we drop the whole subject before this list becomes
> a large flame.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -Mythic
> 
> >From: "Luis Fernando Talero" <frega007@col1.telecom.com.co>
> >Reply-To: gameprogrammer@gameprogrammer.com
> >To: <gameprogrammer@gameprogrammer.com>
> >CC: <kamel@nolimits-online.com>
> >Subject: Re: GRIPES!
> >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:38:26 -0000
> >
> >Hey Justin,
> >
> >When I suscribed to this group I did it because it says it is "especially
> >tolerant of beginners" so if you  are so expert then what the heck are you
> >doing here? Why don´t you just live?
> >Nobody stays where don´t like to stay. Besides, if I was so expert and
> >powerfull as you (better, as you want to make us belive but "eyes we see
> >but
> >don´t hearts") I´ll choose between two paths:
> >
> >1. Just live (Hey, I really recommend this for you, for you don´t to stop
> >your growing to become a deidity) or
> >2. Stay and just help people without to be saying !Hey, is here anybody so
> >good as me, cause.. this is so boring....
> >
> >
> >Justin, nothing personal, just don´t make us all thing you are some kind of
> >stupid chatterbox (even if you are, please, don´t let us know)
> >
> >I agree with a couple of people when they say that a mailing list or a
> >newsgroup must be the last resource to find the solution of a hard problem,
> >but, if you can´t find the answer and have finished your resources, even
> >for
> >the simplest problem, you have to go there. Do you go to the librarian just
> >to resolve the hyper-unknow questions? Then let me tell you you are loosing
> >a big part of the good stuff, my little.
> >
> >Another thing, it´s well know that you can find any info if you go and buy
> >a
> >good book, but do you allways have the money to buy it? If so, I really
> >congratulate you because you are very fortunate and one of the few that can
> >do that, but you must tink that this list is worldwide, here are people
> >from
> >French, Germany, southamerica, etc, and no all of them (of us will be
> >better) have this capability. Personally, I work on the day and study at
> >night and it´s for me and for my classmates (they do the same) a big effort
> >just to get the time to study the lessons so, wich is the problem if I use
> >this list to resolve some doubts I couldn´t resolve?. For example, lets say
> >that I ask you if you know what is JR? Don´t you know, DON´T YU KNOW? Whow,
> >maybe it´s because it´s not an american acronym. So, I ask myself: How is
> >that there is any JUSTIN who doesn´t know what is JR games? It´s
> >umbelievable!!!!
> >
> >I´m tired now, of all of this, of people like you Justin and the worst is
> >that every day most people seems to be the same: just with their outlook,
> >nobody else does exist. This people vision of the world isn´t, it´s just
> >its
> >vision of their neighborhood or friends.
> >
> >Ok, Justin. I hope this message works for something on you, you should not
> >overestimate the newbies because, as Karmel Serend says, every one of us
> >had
> >been one.
> >
> >And finally, for every one of the mailing list, how comes that some of you
> >have feelt the need to post your data - an even the qualifications - just
> >because some don´t-know-who asked for it? Think, my little brothers,
> >think.... but with your head and not with your pride
> >
> >Bye
> >
> >PS: Justin, I have never hear of you in any important game... hum hum...
> >strange, isn´t it? for such a big mouth... hum hum
> >Thanks to Kamel Serend for to give me - without knowing it- the
> >inspiration.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: justin howard <lordjuz@Hotmail.com>
> >To: gameprogrammer@gameprogrammer.com <gameprogrammer@gameprogrammer.com>
> >Date: Martes, 07 de Septiembre de 1999 08:37 a.m.
> >Subject: GRIPES!
> >
> >
> > >When I joined this list I was assuming a few things and that I may even
> >get
> > >some help from some of you...
> > >Ive got a few questions for (almost) ALL OF YOU...
> > >
> > >1) Have any of you got a degree, Software Engineering or Computer
> >Science?
> > >
> > >2) What kind of game programmer doesnt know what RTS and RPG mean?
> > >
> > >3) Why are peopole answering messages with a "Im sorry I cant help"?
> > >   Surely if you cant help there is no point answering is there!
> > >
> > >4) I was wondering what the average time trying to nut out your own
> >problems
> > >is, I have an ssumption it is less than 5 minutes.
> > >
> > >5) Have any of you even completed high school maths(to those younger
> >ignore
> > >this one).
> > >
> > >
> > >Im sorry that some of you got this when you dont deserve it.
> > >
> > >For those who are still learning the VERY BASICS, its easier to learn
> >from
> >a
> > >tutorial somewhere on the net.
> > >
> > >Ok off of gripes,
> > >I was wondering ...
> > >
> > >1) how many people on this list have ever been employed by a game
> > >Development company cause im interested...
> > >
> > >2) and how many are currently working on serious projects or working as a
> > >team on something.
> > >
> > >------
> > >thanx for listening
> > >And happy programming
> > >
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